Curse

whitedragon · Jun 02, 2006, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahn Roi

At the moment there are spammers in just about every district, that "wizard" would be stretched pretty thin if he were assigned an entire outpost to himself.

And if that 1 wizard had the power to ban it would'nt take long for him to clean up that post.

TheMosesPHD · Jun 02, 2006, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by inscribed

Those of you arguing against the local chat spam have to realize, you are the ones with the problem. The sellers certainly don't have the problem here, they are, after all, getting their stuff sold. The buyers don't have a problem. The average user does not have a problem, they simply accept the spam as part of what you would hear in town. It is you, the select few, who choose to have the problem because "oh my god! he is using a local chat for something that belongs in trade chat! ban him!". No one else has a problem with finding groups or carrying on conversations. I don't have a problem keeping up with what's being said in Lion's Arch Dis 1, and there isn't much that is worse than that. You are the minority here, not us defending the spam on local chat.

Spamming on local chat works. It works better than any other method currently at the player's disposal. And, quite frankly, it are these spammers that are CREATING the economy of Guild Wars. You should be thanking them. Players will continue to use it until a better method is introduced. This is really all there is to this conversation. If you don't like the spam, well, too bad. You are going to have to learn to adapt, at least until Anet decides to change things. Communities evolve, this is a result of it.

For a real world scenario, imagine walking through the streets of a heavy trade area of a real world city. Imagine walking through Morroco on a Saturday afternoon. A majority of what I imagine I'd hear are peddlers trying to sell of their goods, stuff collected from all over the world. This is no different.

Maybe, just maybe, if you wish real hard, Anet just might introduce that trade house, and a majority of the spam will disappear. It works in WoW, and they have a wonderful, player driven economy.

I just want to make sure everyone read this quoted post.

All of it.

guppy · Jun 02, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

I have to agree.. inscribed put it all into perspective.

vinegrower · Jun 02, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Why are those of us who follow the rules being told to switch districts or shut off Local by those that refuse to follow the rules? Sure, you may find someone to buy your stuff in local, but for every 1 person that buys, you are annoying 20+ others. Do they not matter to you?

whitedragon · Jun 02, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinegrower

Why are those of us who follow the rules being told to switch districts or shut off Local by those that refuse to follow the rules? Sure, you may find someone to buy your stuff in local, but for every 1 person that buys, you are annoying 20+ others. Do they not matter to you?

No they dont matter, that is why they do it.

guppy · Jun 02, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

vinegrower.. again.. its very very easy to go ahead and ignore the root of the problem. This is getting very frustrating that people don't read properly. Perhaps there is a reason behind the spamming? It is very obvious its annoying and its also obvious it won't stop by asking people to do so on these boards.

This has been explained throughout the thread continuously and keeps getting ignored. People are JUST stuck on local chat spamming and ignoring everything else. NO, it DOES NOT mean that its ok, it's just that you cannot ignore the root cause!!

Please read what inscribed wrote.. he said it very nicely.

Vahn Roi · Jun 02, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitedragon

And if that 1 wizard had the power to ban it would'nt take long for him to clean up that post.

With the number of people who spam and the number of new spammers that come in every minute coupled with the number of districts, I don't think 1 wizard would be able to keep up.

Vahn Roi · Jun 02, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinegrower

Why are those of us who follow the rules being told to switch districts or shut off Local by those that refuse to follow the rules? Sure, you may find someone to buy your stuff in local, but for every 1 person that buys, you are annoying 20+ others. Do they not matter to you?

no, it really doesn't matter to them, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it, but in their mind they have no other alternative, which is half-truth.

vinegrower · Jun 02, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

do not imply that I am not reading. I understand the root. I also understand that the people spam local are making a deliberate CHOICE to do so. They are not being forced to do so, regardless of what any one says. There are other alternatives.

And just because we cannot do anything to fix the root of the problem, that doesn't mean that we need to make the situation worse. Yes there needs to be imporvements to trading. I'm not saying that there is no need for change. In fact, I strongly support a major over haul of the trade system. I'm just trying to point out how you people simply do not care about the annoyance that you are creating. You have the power to not be part of the local spam, but you choose to take part, and to defend those who also would like to.

Vahn Roi · Jun 02, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

and their reasoning is sound in their own minds...which makes it worse -_-

Big Tony · Jun 02, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

So the concensus is that since the trade system is "broken" (as much as i hate to use that term), spammers refuse to try and remedy the problem in any way. Anet created a patch to keep WTB and WTS messages on the trade channel which people blatantly (and happily) bypass. The non-sellers are forced to turn off local chat and new players suffer since no one is around to answer their questions. Local chat really IS doomed if this is the logic that most players are using.

Ghull Ka · Jun 02, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

Shut the hell up

Funny, that's exactly what I'd like WTS spammers to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

QUOTE ME on my responses and make your response directly oppose mine.

I would do this if I had any interest in arguing the point with you. I do not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

All you do is complain about how things are inconvenient for you instead of presenting an alternative that will work for both sides.

I presented precisely such an alternative in the post that you quoted, champ.

1. Expand the ignore list to "Infinite"
2. Suppress messages sent by people on the ignore list, wherever they may be: local, trade, guild, team, alliance, emote, whisper.

That way, I can choose to add WTS local chat spammers, one by one, to my ignore list and never hear from them again; WTS local chat spammers can choose to continue to spam on local, secure in the knowledge that each time they spam may result in more people adding them to ignore; and people who don't mind it can choose to live with it.

I find it interesting that someone can say, essentially, "I know you have turned off trade channel, but I want you to see my WTS anyway, so I broadcast it on local" and somehow not consider themselves rude or selfish. I choose to turn off trade chat. Sellers acknowledge this and even use it as justification for why they "need" to WTS on local.

Nobody "needs" to sell items to other players. Ever. People "want" to sell items to other players. Since they "want" to sell items, they "choose" to spam WTS in local.

Even though ANet has, by the recent implementation of the WTS local chat filter, implied that this is not appropriate.

whitedragon · Jun 02, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahn Roi

With the number of people who spam and the number of new spammers that come in every minute coupled with the number of districts, I don't think 1 wizard would be able to keep up.

Im not saying it is a endall solution but that it will give the players the power to police themselfs (anet cant keep up with all the rule breaking). We can not rely on anet to stop the ppl who breack the rules all the time. IMO

TheMosesPHD · Jun 02, 2006, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Well I've just mowed the backyard and it seems in that time there still hasn't been any sign of an arguement that hasn't already been sufficiently addressed by myself or another poster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinegrower

do not imply that I am not reading. I understand the root. I also understand that the people spam local are making a deliberate CHOICE to do so. They are not being forced to do so, regardless of what any one says. There are other alternatives.

And just because we cannot do anything to fix the root of the problem, that doesn't mean that we need to make the situation worse. Yes there needs to be imporvements to trading. I'm not saying that there is no need for change. In fact, I strongly support a major over haul of the trade system. I'm just trying to point out how you people simply do not care about the annoyance that you are creating. You have the power to not be part of the local spam, but you choose to take part, and to defend those who also would like to.

Please dont tell people to shut up - Arkantos. If I didn't care I wouldn't be spending all this time explaining the situation over and over again. It's you who don't care about the situation that the traders are in. You lack the ability to put yourself in another persons shoes. It's easy to look at the situation through your perspective because it's a very simplistic way of looking at things.

The problem isn't that the chat spam is annoying. That's the effect. The cause of the effect (the problem) is that there isn't a reasonable alternative that allows traders to reach the common passerbyer.

You have the power to observe the reason that the problem exists, but like guppy said, you're choosing to ignore the root of the problem.

Now then. I'm gonna go mow the front lawn. Let's see if a decent arguement shows up by the time I'm done.

And of course I mention again that inscribed summed it all up very well a few posts back.

Vahn Roi · Jun 02, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitedragon

Im not saying it is a endall solution but that it will give the players the power to police themselfs (anet cant keep up with all the rule breaking). We can not rely on anet to stop the ppl who breack the rules all the time. IMO

I would be worried about corruption...seriously worried

guppy · Jun 02, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Big Tony, vinegrower, vahn roi.

You all agree that the trade system could use an improvement? You also all seem to believe that it is spammers that need to change. I agree that it has good intentions, but how can you ask them to do it?

They will only respond to force, and the problem is that if you ban someone for doing it, they will respond with the trade system is simply inadequate and really there aren't many options left for players. What would Anet reply to that, use the broken system and be happy?

You cannot address one half of the problem and leave the rest to linger.

Spammers won't change because nobody is ethical anymore (sadly true). I don't mean to defend them, that is what is being mis-interpreted.

"And just because we cannot do anything to fix the root of the problem, that doesn't mean that we need to make the situation worse."

The root of the problem CAN be fixed, and it CAN be addressed by Anet. This is what I believe the argument is. I think I have stated time and time again that it is not nice to spam in local chat, but the economy of Guild Wars would be nowhere if everyone turned off and at the same time only used the trade channel.

There ARE spammers in the trade channels too and all it does is relocate a problem with the trade system.

Why can I not argue that spamming in trade channels of the same item with the suffixes... 1 2 3 at the end of each message, should be bannable too? It is in the trade channel, and it is still spamming. No one wants to see this, and so spammers choose to use local chat so people CAN see it. You see, the root of the problem is what is causing this mess.

Spammers or no spammers, it is still a problem that if addressed WILL help the local chat.

TheMosesPHD · Jun 02, 2006, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Sorry, had to delay mowing the lawn because you are clueless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Funny, that's exactly what I'd like WTS spammers to do.

I would do this if I had any interest in arguing the point with you. I do not.

I presented precisely such an alternative in the post that you quoted, champ.

1. Expand the ignore list to "Infinite"
2. Suppress messages sent by people on the ignore list, wherever they may be: local, trade, guild, team, alliance, emote, whisper.

That way, I can choose to add WTS local chat spammers, one by one, to my ignore list and never hear from them again; WTS local chat spammers can choose to continue to spam on local, secure in the knowledge that each time they spam may result in more people adding them to ignore; and people who don't mind it can choose to live with it.

I find it interesting that someone can say, essentially, "I know you have turned off trade channel, but I want you to see my WTS anyway, so I broadcast it on local" and somehow not consider themselves rude or selfish. I choose to turn off trade chat. Sellers acknowledge this and even use it as justification for why they "need" to WTS on local.

Nobody "needs" to sell items to other players. Ever. People "want" to sell items to other players. Since they "want" to sell items, they "choose" to spam WTS in local.

Even though ANet has, by the recent implementation of the WTS local chat filter, implied that this is not appropriate.

First off, you stated at the beginning that you have no interest in arguing the point with me. So then it can be assumed that nothing that is written after that statement has any worth, because it refuses to consider the important facts presented before you. Hey guess what! I'm right.

Here's my main point in this post from here on: Players selling to players drives the economy.

Expand ignore list to infinite?... You do realize that each name on your ignore list takes up server space. Giving infinite anything would fill up the servers in quite a hurry.
The ignore list already does block all messages/emotes with the exception of guild chat and alliance chat.
Nobody needs to sell items to other players eh? So...what you're saying is that there's no incentive to sell a perfect 15^50 Crystalline to a player for 400k. Instead I should just sell it to merchant for 300g right? Sounds like a great way to money! Ya and of course why would I buy a sup vigor from a player for 30k when I could buy it straight from the trader for 40k! Smart shopping is for noobs, right?

Oh and those kewl looking greens! What's the point in buying them from players when I can go around and farm each and every one that I want. It's not like it would be a better idea to maybe farm just one of them for selling or farm gold or runes or anything else, and sell what I don't need from those drops in order to get money to buy what I don't farm. No way. Doing this wouldn't waste enough of my time.

The economy is driven by player to player transactions. That's an obvious fact that you have no good reason to overlook.

Phades · Jun 02, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

There is no reasonable alternative! You can't ban people for driving the economy. Half of the GW balance system is based upon trades between players.

Actually, most of the game balance is derived from skill usage and class combinations. Also, dictacting game balance in a realm where there are no limits to the resources through the reasoning of economy is rather amusing.

All you are causing is less use of the all chat by everyone except those who are spamming. You have to realize that this is a self defeating cycle, where you are re-creating one of the biggest trade problems again in another channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

IT"S PINK!! The pink blends into the game while the stark white stands out. On top of that it's actually the variance between the two colors that helps your ad get noticed. If all of the ads were just in trade chat it would be harder to single out an ad in the blur of pink.

Yes, pink sucks, so work on getting the color changed instead of trying to justify invading the other channels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

And let me repeat this last phrase again because people don't seem to be notcing the irony here:
The people that say we should all use trade chat are the exact same people saying they frequently mute trade chat.

You have mroe irony than that because individuals such as yourself are causing people to mute all chat as well. Trying to justify it by telling people to remove themselves from the games automatic sorting that places them in the highest district that isnt full rahter lame. You didnt bring this up specifically, but its been mixed in the pile of arguments already.

Yes, they could implement something to assist people who desire to trade. In other games where there is more of a balace between resources into and out of the game world, there exist several instances of a well developed system in place to help facilitate this aspect. What truly stands for questioning is, was that ever a primary focus of the game? The introduction of greens and their relative resale prices to npc venders is really the only arument for this veiwpoint. The rest of the game dictates otherwise.

This sort of situation can easily be viewed as harrassment by either side, but only one side is basing this complication within ANET.

vinegrower · Jun 02, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

Shut the hell up.

No. I have every right to express my opinion, just as you do. You are being rather rude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

If I didn't care I wouldn't be spending all this time explaining the situation over and over again. It's you who don't care about the situation that the traders are in. You lack the ability to put yourself in another persons shoes. It's easy to look at the situation through your perspective because it's a very simplistic way of looking at things.

You assume too much. I buy and sell a lot of items. I use forums such as these, and the auction sites to buy and sell the majority of my goods. The items I do sell in game, I price so that they move quickly, getting me back to playing as soon as I can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

The problem isn't that the chat spam is annoying. That's the effect. The cause of the effect (the problem) is that there isn't a reasonable alternative that allows traders to reach the common passerbyer.

You have the power to observe the reason that the problem exists, but like guppy said, you're choosing to ignore the root of the problem.

did you read that post that you quoted? I said that we deffinatly need a major overhaul of the trade system. I understand that selling in game can be a hastle. However, in situations like these, where the solution to the root problem is beyond our control, we can only do our part to make it better for others. I don't see much of that goin on.

One last point. Do you really want people that dissagree with you to "shut up?" after all, the more debates, arguements, etc that happen over this issue, the more attention it will generate, making it a higher priority for ArenaNet. If those of us who dislike the local spam, just ignoreed the issue, then it would appear that everything is running smoothly. So everyone, stop with the "shut up" crap, and keep the debate alive, but in a civil manner.

Ghull Ka · Jun 02, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

Players selling to players drives the economy.

The ingame economy is an optional feature which has been created by those who participate in it. I don't participate in it. It does not need to exist in order for me to enjoy Guild Wars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

Expand ignore list to infinite?... You do realize that each name on your ignore list takes up server space. Giving infinite anything would fill up the servers in quite a hurry.

The ignore list already does block all messages/emotes with the exception of guild chat and alliance chat.

The last time I tested, this was not true. If it is true now, then I will be thankful. However, the ignore list is nowhere near large enough to filter out the hundreds of spammers whom I would choose to filter out. Therefore, expanding it to infinite is the next logical solution. ANet has the server space to do so; they log every chat and transaction and action ingame already. Their servers can handle infinite ignore lists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

Nobody needs to sell items to other players eh? So...what you're saying is...<sarcastic rant removed> The economy is driven by player to player transactions. That's an obvious fact that you have no good reason to overlook.

The ingame economy is purely optional. I can overlook any factor of the ingame economy just as easily as I can overlook the ingame economy itself -- I do not participate in it because I choose not to (I participate in the ingame economy only insomuch as I use the NPC traders, that is to say). Since I choose not to participate in the ingame economy, I do not believe that I should be subjected to the spam that it creates. If I had my way, I would be able to /ignore every spammer in the game, even if I had to do so one at a time.

If ANet would give me the ability to /ignore every local chat WTS spammer, then logically others would be free to choose not to /ignore them. This seems to be the perfect solution. Those who choose to participate in the ingame economy could do so, those who choose to /ignore it could do so, and everyone wins.

I fail to see how this is not the perfect solution.